Wednesday, March 30, 2011


Okay, I suck at the computer so I don't know how to copy your comment here, so to make sure you see it.  Thank you for your comment.  I don't get very many as this is just my personal little blog where I put a few things I write and quotes that I find.

 I guess I have my halo on today with my comment on DC:)  Okay, just kidding.

I am glad that you didn't think I was too bad with my comment[s] on exC but I am guessing that some of the others were very harsh on exC.  I don't remember your comments specifically but if you tell me the name of the story I could go back and read them.  I do remember your name.

First, no one on exC tells anyone else what to do but there are occasions where someone will speak up if they think things have gone too far.  Many of the commenters on exC have been very abused, terrorized and  hurt by Christianity's tenants and teachings and/or religious families.  The site is designed for people to say what they want to about their Christian experiences and to be empowered to speak up about their angry feelings as well as any other good or even bad feelings they have.  They don't have to take the same kind of crap at the website that they have in real life.  Quite a few still have family that treats them like dirt for giving up the religion or they are hiding that fact out of fear or, in quite few cases, love.  They have no where else to feel they have a voice.

The vast majority of Christians who come to exC are not listening with their hearts, okay?   They spew Bible verses.  I own about 15 versions of the Bible.  How many do you have?  I don't have great memory so I have a hard time quoting word for word but darn it - I do know what is in the Bible.  I know that and I quit being a Christian.  Then, they spew how we exChristians just didn't believe in the right form of Christianity.  Even though we have spent hours in the pew and most of us have tried a number of churches before we left Jesus behind.  Quite a few of the Christians try to frighten us with hell or the terrible consequences of being a backslider.  We thought about that before we left the fold.  Hell is a myth from a long time ago that has been blown up into an over the top eternity of torture.  So that we will all be too afraid to question the priests, preachers, ministers, popes and pastors.  We saw that it was just a weapon of control with no substance.  We resent having that used against us as it was while we were still believers.

What happens is that the Christian presents the same tired evidence we have all heard before, generally goes on and on, then leaves in a huff when no one is all that impressed with the info he has.  The comment on DC is about atheists thinking they have kindness all wrapped up compared to Christians.  Show me that is true.

My comments on exC are to protect the lurkers and the fellow commenters who are scared of Biblegod and worried that they will be punished by an invisible being for screwing up.  They won't be.  God hasn't punished me in all these years.  Biblegod doesn't exist.  My life is better for not having to reconcile the Bible teachings with the real world.  I feel protective towards my fellow apostates.

Of course, I have my moments.  I do sometimes resent that people will not take the time to listen or read what has been said on the site and think that their message is so important that they have to barge in and tell us where they think we went wrong.  With thousands of variations of Christianity this ends up being a bit tedious. Sometimes I am tired or upset.  The site is for me to vent a bit, too.

I would urge you to realize that those people are hurting.  The Biblegod concepts are very damaging for many people.  The message is absurdly negative [born a sinner, as filthy rags fit only for the dustbin], saved not by some sane method but by having some poor guy who is the son of god but really is god [WTF?] who then gets the crap beat out of him and is crucified in a gruesome death [he gave his all] but then he didn't really give his all if he is god and is still living after only 3 days of dead [is it really that big a sacrifice to do something for 3 days and still have an imagined eternity left beyond that?].

I am sorry if you have been offended by my fellow commenters at exC but I truly ask you to consider that exC is a refuge for hurting people.

As for commenters at DC, I wish they would realize that there is a lot more emotion involved with their logic than they might realize, I suppose:)  Not that they are wrong because they are generally correct in their reason based thoughts.  It is just that I don't picture a world filled with total rationality to be realistic nor a really good goal.  I love having love in my life.

Enough of my ramblings for now.

By the way, the garden is just getting under way.  The daffodils are looking happy and I really must start planting peas and spinach and lettuce very soon!

Kindness, Caring and Atheism

Hi Dan - I was thinking about this post [on Debunking Christianity Blog] and, although I have no idea if Richard will remain a Christian and so only time will tell if god did convince him to believe, I think you have stated what I was leaning towards: "There is a direct connection between belief and action, and this should serve as a strong reminder that our actions are what really define who we are."

So, if we say that atheists are every bit as loving and kind as theists then our actions had best show it. I truly believe there is a time and a place for a bit of vitriol against the Christian viewpoint and some of the deluded users of human kind that push their horrifyingly bad for the psyche Christian crapola. The people who believe they are apologists and preachers and are working hard to intellectually prove there is a god are a very deluded lot. They have read the info available and still lie to themselves and, importantly, innocent victims to prove their points.

Having said that, many people are raised to believe in Biblegod and god in general. What are they to do? They aren't always the brightest bulbs in the box or emotionally mature. They do know they want to feel accepted and loved. Who wouldn't? Do we throw punches or do we try to dialog with them or simply choose to ignore them at times?

To disagree with kindness and decency would indeed show where our hearts are. Now, I do not tell anyone here what to do. I am frustrated with all the Christian crapola myself and find the message that we were all born as sinners to be very damaging. We know there is a bait and switch going on when people enter the church and everyone loves them and then they get kicked to the curb later on and told they are sinners and the world is filled with bad things and only their version of Jesus can save them from the horrors they deserve. A sad and negative way to look at things and a waste of the one live we have, IMHO.

I cannot for the life of me fathom why people would think reason and reason alone is all the evidence one needs for every interaction. I want to feel. I need to feel. I am a human being, not a robot. Rationality is important as a reality check but then so are emotions. If a "scientist" thinks that he is harming people and he "feels" that is wrong, that may be a good thing.

We need both feelings and rational thinking to be fully human. Let's just consider that when we get the "big guns" out for a puny little threat like an ordinary human being that believes in Biblegod or god. Maybe remember to speak with the kindness and love that we so imagine a world without religion would have. Maybe it won't. That choice is up to us. Atheists have no corner on the market of kindness and need to cultivate that trait within themselves and the wider culture they live in.

Sometimes you can be right and still be wrong for saying something hurtful without considering people's feelings. One can choose ones words carefully when you think someone is delicate and save the big guns for those preachers and apologists that truly do deserve what they get. Religion will die a writhing, gasping death as there is no basis for it. In the meantime, what kind of a society are we helping to grow? A nurturing one or an "I'm right, you are an ass" type of society? A society of caring or one that wins at all costs? I truly believe we are at the crossroads and that we do not need a god to show we are kind and caring human beings. But, on the whole, atheists are going to have show, with their actions, that is true. Sometimes a gentle approach is best.

Monday, March 28, 2011

Notable Quotable

"If we are going to teach 'Creation Science' . . . as an alternative to evolution, then we should also teach the 'Stork Theory' as an alternative to biological reproduction." ~Judith Hayes~

"Science . . . has opened our eyes to the vastness of the universe and given us light, truth and freedom from fear - where once was darkness, ignorance and superstition." ~Luther Burbank~

I found these two quotes and, of course, I think we could add Carl Sagan saying " Reason is a candle in the darkness."  Hope I correctly quoted Carl.  I know I am close:)

I in no way "worship science" which is a red herring thrown about by fundamentalists and a few others in Christianity.  I do believe that science has shown us the vastness of the Universe.  The possibilities of endless numbers of planets around this Universe.  Thus, the likelihood that there are far more sentient beings in the Universe is growing exponentially.  Now, they all live so far away and they are so spread out in the vastness of time we will probably never meet them.  Yet, these other sentient beings either have in the past, are now or will be in the future "out there".

I also believe that science does not have all the answers.  It doesn't have all the questions.  Why are we here?  Why is this society better than that society?  Is our society being all that it can be?  So many questions that science can only give us clues for.  The answers lie in our hearts and minds.  It is we, as a thinking species, that will have to sort these kind of questions out.  Science can help.

Relying on an outside source like the Bible, the Koran, gods and demons is immature.  Science has been helping us to grow up by allowing us to see these "parent figures" for what they are.  Substitutes for taking responsibility where we need to and accepting the way life is when that is necessary.  In essence, our species is being allowed to "grow up".  Our reasoning mind must be kicked into high gear and allowed to assess our emotional mind so that we can decide what is a reasonable emotion and what actions we can or should take [children are lovable therefore we should take care of them] and what is an unreasonable emotion and/or action [I should beat my wife because I am angry.]

Sunday, March 27, 2011

Religion Hurts

We see it all the time.  Religion hurts at least as much as it helps.  I think it hurts the world and human beings far more than it helps them.  I am reminded of this when I see comments from Christians that tell us that we are all born sinners.  Sin is a man made disease.  And priests, ministers, pastors and preachers have the cure.  Come to church.  Read the Bible.  Give of your time, talents and money.  It would seem, however, that accepting Jesus as your savior is no real cure as you have to keep on going to church, reading the Bible and giving of your time, talents and money for the rest of your life!

Original sin is such a sad and horrible concept.  You aren't just born human with your good points and your bad points.  You are born as filthy rags fit only for the dustbin.  Such an overwhelmingly  negative  way to view yourself.  The only cure, accepting Jesus, isn't much of a cure.  You are still garbage.  Its just that when you finally die Jesus has you covered.

This life is the only life we know for a fact that we get.  Allowing ourselves the freedom to explore different beliefs is a gift we need to give to ourselves.  A lot of us are coming to realize that the Bible is just another set of myths and Biblegod isn't any more real than anyone else's god.  In fact, a lot of us are realizing that there probably just isn't any god at all.  And for many of us that is a relief from the guilt of being born sinners and the fear of an imagined hell after death.

Thursday, March 24, 2011

Is Christianity a Cult?

This comment by dealdoctor should answer that question.

You are just like the merciless bastards you hate so much!"

Dan, don't take this personally. It is not you we hate because how could we we do not really know you. It is your ideas which have been deeply examined long ago by most of us and found empty, false but very seductive to the vulnerable. Observe the fact that religions, of which Christianity is just one, separate, indoctrinate and control. You know how you would feel about "false cults"? That is the way we feel about all cults. Christianity is just a BIG cult but it is a cult with all the characteristics of any other cult. At random I found this list of the characteristics of a cult by Nori J. Muster who may or may not be a Christian. I do not honestly know. I just too the list to see how Christians measure up as a cult. 

Commentary by Nori J. Muster

If you think you might be involved in a cult, ask yourself some serious questions about the group.

Do you have to change who you are to fit in, please others?

( Discipleship and "Christian Growth to be more pleasing to the Lord and church group opinions)

Do they set up a duality of "us" and "them" and tell you that people outside the group are bad, less important?

( The Saved versus the Unsaved)

Do they treat "outsiders" badly or talk behind their backs?

( Oh " the world system" is going to hell in a hand basket!")

Do they treat members badly?

( Shunning, Speaking the Truth in "love" )

Do they give a false impression to the public?

( We are all about charity but our church budget has 98% spent on our own group activities and building needs) 

Do they predict that society is on the brink of destruction?

( Oh hell yes! Jesus is coming SOON!)

Further symptoms:

Cult leaders are often psychopathic and power hungry. They teach their followers that the outside world is evil; that the cult offers the only salvation. This creates an atmosphere of isolation, leading to hopelessness.

( Be sure you come on Sunday morning, night and Wednesday night and then we have our small groups and the retreat. Put your kids in our Christian school. AND you have to meet our PASTOR!! HE IS INCREDIBLE!)

Cult recruiters target people with low self-esteem, presenting the group as a loving surrogate family. Members are taught to do whatever the family asks. They must repress their individuality and work for the good of the group.

( The Spirit of the Lord is upon me to preach the gospel to the POOR, recovery of sight to the BLIND, release the CAPTIVES and you get the idea go to the underclass vulnerable crowd. And the bad market would be those rich people who are leaders in society. Why it is very hard to dupe those dudes). 

New people may receive red carpet treatment, but once they are established members, they may be exploited and abused. They may alter their personalities to please authority figures and fit into the group. 

( Saved by Grace alone but soon it's your butt better show up and work your ass off or you are backslidden and on your way to hell again. In sales we call it bait and switch. )

Cult leaders preach that society is on the brink of destruction, reinforced by isolating their members and controlling the flow of information within the cult. They manipulate members with guilt and fear.

( Christians manipulated by the use of guilt and fear. Well maybe that is not true like other cults. Wait! That does actually happen when people are called to come to the altar and confess their sins to the Lord and come under CONVICTION of their sins or they will bust hell wide open. Guilt and Fear in cults. Yep its right there in every Evangelical congregation that preaches the Bible. Repent!!!!!)

Cults try to portray themselves as benign and may hide undesirable aspects of their operation from the public and from members. Thus the stereotype of "blind" followers. 

( Those who follow a Shepherd just like sheep do? Well maybe if it is a Good Shepherd . Hey man you have got to come hear our PASTOR!!!!!! ) 

Check, check, check, check...right down the line. Cult...How ironic that Evangelical churches want to deprogram people from cults....It is about like a cocaine addict helping an alcoholic get off booze. 

Cults are everywhere. By the way Hitler's followers also qualify. You got to hear our LEADER!! 

Thursday, March 10, 2011

A Dark Parable

A Dark Parable

By DRC ~ 

I’ve spent my whole life trying to find God - seeking Him, crying out to Him, and begging Him to reply. Countless times I’ve asked God whether He exists, but He never answers. I’ve also spent my whole life looking for evidence of His existence. In hindsight, this was a little foolish. Romans 1:19-20 says that God’s “eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen” in nature. It says God’s existence is plainly obvious to everyone. It shouldn’t take two decades of searching to find Him. Merely a seconds thought should be enough to see God’s nature.

If God created the universe, I want to learn about Him. If God loves me unconditionally, I want to love Him too. Unfortunately I can’t even tell that He exists. According to the Bible, this is because God has intentionally deluded me [John 12:40, Isaiah 6:10, 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12]. He has twisted my mind so that I cannot see His “plainly obvious” truth. He has forced me to believe He doesn’t exist and will now condemn me to hell for it. I spent my life crying out to Him as the Bible instructs, and this is what I get.

Atheists have a three-word-solution to this problem, and it is very tempting indeed. Yesterday I was thinking about all these things and a dark parable appeared in my mind…

There was once a small boy who was starting his first day of school. His father drove him there in the morning and before opening the car door, the boy said, “Dad, do you love me?” His father didn’t respond. The boy was puzzled and didn’t know what this meant.

Years later the boy, now a teenager, was starting his first job. As he was leaving for his first shift he asked his father, “Dad, do you love me?” The father did not respond. He didn’t even blink. This worried the boy but he decided not to let it get to him. He was growing up. He had a new job. He had a life to live.

Years later the boy, now an adult, was moving out of home. He had packed his belongings and spent a few minutes looking at his childhood toys one last time before they would be donated to charity. He had learned and changed. He was moving on. As he turned to walk out the front door, he asked his father one more time, “Dad, do you love me?” There was silence, but then the father stood up. He walked over to the fireplace and the grown boy watched intently as he lit a fire. Without saying a word, the father took the boy by the throat, pushed his head into the flames and held it there for eternity.

This amazing parable was published on by one of the many contributors to their website.  The content was amazing.  Think about.  God spends a lifetime not actually speaking to us.  Others tell us what God is and says and does.  The Bible, the preachers, our friends and our family.  God never says a word to us directly.  And then He sends most of His creation to Hell when they die.  What a ridiculous and immoral God!  

With so many gods available to worship in this world, or agnosticism or atheism available as alternatives, why would you worship this god?  Let this god go and choose a life path that makes sense and encourages kindness and decency!