It is early spring in my garden and I am working very hard at keeping down the weeds and getting the plants transplanted. I am transforming the front garden into an easy to weed oasis in the desert. The landscape cloth is down, the plants neatly arranged and my nifty wooden pathway is done. The drip system is in place. Now all I have to do is get the baby flowers started for the front edge and keep hauling in rocks from the side of the road.
Today I am quite busy putting in sagebrush. I got it from by the railroad tracks. It is native but doesn't grow in our yard without a little help from me. I am still cutting back the dead silver sage and yarrow stalks. Yeah, it should already be done by now but, hey, it has been incredibly windy this March and April.
I have also watched a few people blossom online. It is wonderful to see people taking control of their lives as best they can. Christianity not working for you, chop it down and throw it in the burn pile! Make room for softer, kinder beliefs. Quit trying to grow moist tropical jungle plants in the desert. You are fighting against reason!
Saturday, April 16, 2011
Saturday, April 2, 2011
Notable Quotable
Todays Notable Quotable is a long one! It talks about women, the Bible and liberal churches. It is by Gandolf an anonymous exChristian. I just love the way he said this.
For starters,Eve is the one blamed for being convinced and led astray in the garden of eden by the naughty snake that convinces her to eat the fruit of the tree so that they will become as gods ,Eve then leads adam astray by helping convince Adam to do likewise through being led by Eves example,thus causing downfall of man.
To top matters off evidently God made the male the head and the female the helper.Christians may try to argue this only means man bears the primary responsibility to lead the partnership in a God-glorifying direction.But this still tends to suggest that somehow the spiritual aspect of man is thought above that of a woman.Why do theists beat around the bush,if woman and man were thought equal there should have been absolutely no reason at all to even bother to discuss the male as the head and the female as being the helper.
Ecclesiasticus 25:24 Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die.
This religion is harmless ? pffffffttttt !
Maybe liberal religion is less harmless ,the further away it gets from the "origin" of this original religion.But still that does little to help suggest this original-religion is honestly harmless.
From "origins" of this ancient religious thought of gender bias, evolved much of the bashing and beating of women folk we do still sometimes see continuing within our societies in general today.Sure liberal religious folk might have now joined the anti women-abuse movement in these more modern times,but sadly its a matter of too-little to late ,when "religious thought" in past history had already left the gate wide open and some "faith-groups" been involved helping give the green-light for such bigoted promotion of this sort of gender bias, that now sadly has also infected our whole societies like a cursed plague ,that still ends up helping produce some men who will end up in jail for mistreating women.
Genesis 3:16: Adam's role is to be Eve's master.
A man could marry (literally "become the master of the woman") as often as he desired. In Genesis 4:19
Genesis 16:2 : Sarah gave permission to her husband Abraham to engage in sexual intercourse with her maid, Hagar
Genesis 19:8 Lot offers his two virgin daughters to be raped instead
Genesis 21:10: A man could simultaneously keep numerous concubines
Exodus 20 & 21: A woman as the property of her father. At marriage, her ownership was transferred to her new husband
Leviticus 12:1-5 Quotes God as stating that a woman who has given birth to a boy is ritually unclean for 7 days. If the baby is a girl, the mother is unclean for 14 days.
Leviticus 27:6 A child aged 1 month to five years of age was worth 5 shekels if a boy and 3 shekels if a girl.
Numbers 5:11-31 Women subjected to nasty tests to find out if guilty of an affair.No such test for men
Numbers 27:8-11, Moses describes the rules of inheritance that God has stated. If a man dies, his son inherits the estate; his daughter gets nothing.
Deuteronomy 21:10-13 describes how a soldier can force a woman captive to marry him without regard for her wishes
Deuteronomy 22:13-21 requires that a woman be a virgin when she is married. If she has had sexual relations while single in her father's house, then she would be stoned to death. There were no similar virginity requirements for men.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 requires that a virgin woman who has been raped must marry her attacker, no matter what her feelings are towards the rapist.
Deuteronomy 24:1 describes the procedure for obtaining a divorce. This can only be initiated by the husband, not by the wife
Deuteronomy 25:11: If two men are fighting, and the wife of one of them grabs the other man's testicles, her hand is to be chopped off. There is no penalty if a male relative were to grab the other man
12 disciples of Jesus were recorded as all male
Mark 12:18-27 Jesus doesnt bother to preach against the sexism and unfairness of Jewish law (from Deuteronomy 25:5-10)
Racist Jesus insults women referred to her as a dog or sub-human Matthew 15:22-28 Mark 7:25-30
1 Corinthians 11:7-9:"For a man...is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head."
1 Corinthians 14:34-35: "...women should remain silent in the churches.
Ephesians 5:22-24: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife
1 Timothy 2:11-15:"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent
Titus 2:4: "...train the younger women...to be subject to their husbands
1 Peter 3:7: Women are referred to as "the weaker vessel"
And there is plenty more verses that caused harm, whether intended or not harm is harm.Whether through ancient ignorance of man or not , this was indeed about religion ,and religious views did not have the ability to be deemed wrong and evolve and change fast the same way that science does.If use of nuclear bombs was connected to religion and religious beliefs,the grave danger of these beliefs might become a scurge that is hard to budge for thousands of years.Just as is subjection of women still a scurge that still is hard to budge with regards to women being given equal rights,in becoming leaders within some churches to this very day.
I would totally agree than Dan Wilkinson and his liberal friends are surely very nice people,most will be genuine people who mean well, and definitly are a big step forward.But for them to try and suggest these religious beliefs have no responsibility for heinous acts commited in the name of a religious belief system.To me seems lots like trying to say people killed by nuclear bombs,is not the responsibility of the existence of these nuclear bombs.
And while liberal folk try to water down sanitize and sanction the adverse detrimental effects of religion.Liberal folk liberally continue to also help enable unwarrented respect of religion,which in turn continues to convert folk toward liberal faith,many who through their respect of religion will also allow for the laws of "freedom of religion" to continue onward unchallenged, inturn "cementing" the rights of some faithful folk in the more abusive fundamental faiths ,to also continue onward abusing people existing among their faith groups, totally unchallenged.
Thus why i suggest, the liberal faithful cannot honestly lay claim of being so very harmless either.
When they finally have the guts to ALL promptly step forward ,boldly speak-up! and stand alongside atheists,and petition our governments and authorities, demanding that old laws surrouding "freedom of religion" that currently still allow for this faith-abuse ,need to be reconsidered and amended .Then they might be honest in laying their claim to being harmless.
Until such time,their liberal faith also liberally allows for the faith abuses of abusive fundamental faith groups,to continue to continue onward unchallenged.
For starters,Eve is the one blamed for being convinced and led astray in the garden of eden by the naughty snake that convinces her to eat the fruit of the tree so that they will become as gods ,Eve then leads adam astray by helping convince Adam to do likewise through being led by Eves example,thus causing downfall of man.
To top matters off evidently God made the male the head and the female the helper.Christians may try to argue this only means man bears the primary responsibility to lead the partnership in a God-glorifying direction.But this still tends to suggest that somehow the spiritual aspect of man is thought above that of a woman.Why do theists beat around the bush,if woman and man were thought equal there should have been absolutely no reason at all to even bother to discuss the male as the head and the female as being the helper.
Ecclesiasticus 25:24 Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die.
This religion is harmless ? pffffffttttt !
Maybe liberal religion is less harmless ,the further away it gets from the "origin" of this original religion.But still that does little to help suggest this original-religion is honestly harmless.
From "origins" of this ancient religious thought of gender bias, evolved much of the bashing and beating of women folk we do still sometimes see continuing within our societies in general today.Sure liberal religious folk might have now joined the anti women-abuse movement in these more modern times,but sadly its a matter of too-little to late ,when "religious thought" in past history had already left the gate wide open and some "faith-groups" been involved helping give the green-light for such bigoted promotion of this sort of gender bias, that now sadly has also infected our whole societies like a cursed plague ,that still ends up helping produce some men who will end up in jail for mistreating women.
Genesis 3:16: Adam's role is to be Eve's master.
A man could marry (literally "become the master of the woman") as often as he desired. In Genesis 4:19
Genesis 16:2 : Sarah gave permission to her husband Abraham to engage in sexual intercourse with her maid, Hagar
Genesis 19:8 Lot offers his two virgin daughters to be raped instead
Genesis 21:10: A man could simultaneously keep numerous concubines
Exodus 20 & 21: A woman as the property of her father. At marriage, her ownership was transferred to her new husband
Leviticus 12:1-5 Quotes God as stating that a woman who has given birth to a boy is ritually unclean for 7 days. If the baby is a girl, the mother is unclean for 14 days.
Leviticus 27:6 A child aged 1 month to five years of age was worth 5 shekels if a boy and 3 shekels if a girl.
Numbers 5:11-31 Women subjected to nasty tests to find out if guilty of an affair.No such test for men
Numbers 27:8-11, Moses describes the rules of inheritance that God has stated. If a man dies, his son inherits the estate; his daughter gets nothing.
Deuteronomy 21:10-13 describes how a soldier can force a woman captive to marry him without regard for her wishes
Deuteronomy 22:13-21 requires that a woman be a virgin when she is married. If she has had sexual relations while single in her father's house, then she would be stoned to death. There were no similar virginity requirements for men.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 requires that a virgin woman who has been raped must marry her attacker, no matter what her feelings are towards the rapist.
Deuteronomy 24:1 describes the procedure for obtaining a divorce. This can only be initiated by the husband, not by the wife
Deuteronomy 25:11: If two men are fighting, and the wife of one of them grabs the other man's testicles, her hand is to be chopped off. There is no penalty if a male relative were to grab the other man
12 disciples of Jesus were recorded as all male
Mark 12:18-27 Jesus doesnt bother to preach against the sexism and unfairness of Jewish law (from Deuteronomy 25:5-10)
Racist Jesus insults women referred to her as a dog or sub-human Matthew 15:22-28 Mark 7:25-30
1 Corinthians 11:7-9:"For a man...is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head."
1 Corinthians 14:34-35: "...women should remain silent in the churches.
Ephesians 5:22-24: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife
1 Timothy 2:11-15:"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent
Titus 2:4: "...train the younger women...to be subject to their husbands
1 Peter 3:7: Women are referred to as "the weaker vessel"
And there is plenty more verses that caused harm, whether intended or not harm is harm.Whether through ancient ignorance of man or not , this was indeed about religion ,and religious views did not have the ability to be deemed wrong and evolve and change fast the same way that science does.If use of nuclear bombs was connected to religion and religious beliefs,the grave danger of these beliefs might become a scurge that is hard to budge for thousands of years.Just as is subjection of women still a scurge that still is hard to budge with regards to women being given equal rights,in becoming leaders within some churches to this very day.
I would totally agree than Dan Wilkinson and his liberal friends are surely very nice people,most will be genuine people who mean well, and definitly are a big step forward.But for them to try and suggest these religious beliefs have no responsibility for heinous acts commited in the name of a religious belief system.To me seems lots like trying to say people killed by nuclear bombs,is not the responsibility of the existence of these nuclear bombs.
And while liberal folk try to water down sanitize and sanction the adverse detrimental effects of religion.Liberal folk liberally continue to also help enable unwarrented respect of religion,which in turn continues to convert folk toward liberal faith,many who through their respect of religion will also allow for the laws of "freedom of religion" to continue onward unchallenged, inturn "cementing" the rights of some faithful folk in the more abusive fundamental faiths ,to also continue onward abusing people existing among their faith groups, totally unchallenged.
Thus why i suggest, the liberal faithful cannot honestly lay claim of being so very harmless either.
When they finally have the guts to ALL promptly step forward ,boldly speak-up! and stand alongside atheists,and petition our governments and authorities, demanding that old laws surrouding "freedom of religion" that currently still allow for this faith-abuse ,need to be reconsidered and amended .Then they might be honest in laying their claim to being harmless.
Until such time,their liberal faith also liberally allows for the faith abuses of abusive fundamental faith groups,to continue to continue onward unchallenged.
Friday, April 1, 2011
Notable Quotable
MaverickJester says:
Bill Maher said something that struck me as profound. He said that being able to doubt is a luxury. There are some people, he said, who cling to religion because that is all that they have.
I think that is indeed sometimes very true. I remember reading as a Christian the "inspiring story" of some gal whose last name was Tada. She was paralyzed as a teenager. She seemed to believe that god wanted her to be nearer to him and so, because she was being drawn away from god, this happened to her. God loves her so much. She is super special to god. She is invited to go to Billy Graham meetings and be a speaker.
What happens to a gal like that if she realizes that it was all just a big mistake? The only purpose in her life is the one she herself created. Her mission, her goals, her very reason for being are at stake here as is her entire support group. Hubby is evangelical, friends are evangelical, her job is predicated on being a Christian. Wow. I sure wouldn't be in hurry to burst her bubble.
Bill Maher said something that struck me as profound. He said that being able to doubt is a luxury. There are some people, he said, who cling to religion because that is all that they have.
I think that is indeed sometimes very true. I remember reading as a Christian the "inspiring story" of some gal whose last name was Tada. She was paralyzed as a teenager. She seemed to believe that god wanted her to be nearer to him and so, because she was being drawn away from god, this happened to her. God loves her so much. She is super special to god. She is invited to go to Billy Graham meetings and be a speaker.
What happens to a gal like that if she realizes that it was all just a big mistake? The only purpose in her life is the one she herself created. Her mission, her goals, her very reason for being are at stake here as is her entire support group. Hubby is evangelical, friends are evangelical, her job is predicated on being a Christian. Wow. I sure wouldn't be in hurry to burst her bubble.
The Christian Belief Story
Really true, articulett. You just can't come up with a coherent message from the gobbledygook of the Bible. It is the wackiest, scariest story ever told. We are born as worthless sinners and filthy rags fit only for the dustbin because of 2 people long ago. God never mentions his great plan in the entire Old Testament [several chapters in Isaiah not withstanding, especially since you have to really pick through the whole thing to get what the Christians are getting out of it and it doesn't read the same if you translate it directly from Hebrew instead of from the Greek version].
Anyway, the myriad of problems with the Bible not stopping there but god then sends his son who is really himself to get the crap beat out of him and save us from hell [which also was never mentioned in the Old Testament]. So, Jesus gives the ultimate sacrifice of giving up his life but not really since he came back after only 2 days even though we are going to say it was 3 days. So, for 3 days out of eternity he was dead. Doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice. But, okay, he sacrificed himself even though he is really god who he is sacrificed to and did all this to save the world. Only, not really, since it looks like most of us are going to hell anyway.
It is a inane plan, it is nonsense and it is not believable. Plus, why didn't god just put a fence around the tree of knowledge. If I was a parent with a pool, that is what I would do. Then, you walk out and say "Where is little Johnny" even though supposedly you are all seeing and then you see the little goober floating in the pool. You revive him and it looks like he'll be alright. So you beat the crap out of him because you love him so much and curse all his children, grandchildren, etc. Yeah, I call that bad parenting. No, I call that abusive parenting.
And you never speak to the child again except through other people and you tell him that you hate him and he deserves every bad thing that happens to him but that is really love and you are helping him build character. He doesn't think you are real because he has never actually seen you. He has only seen the nursemaid and a bunch of preachers who tell little Johnny that you are real and all-seeing and all-knowing. So, you decide when he dies you are going to roast him in hell for eternity. Yeah, that is a psycho parent, for sure.
Anyway, the myriad of problems with the Bible not stopping there but god then sends his son who is really himself to get the crap beat out of him and save us from hell [which also was never mentioned in the Old Testament]. So, Jesus gives the ultimate sacrifice of giving up his life but not really since he came back after only 2 days even though we are going to say it was 3 days. So, for 3 days out of eternity he was dead. Doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice. But, okay, he sacrificed himself even though he is really god who he is sacrificed to and did all this to save the world. Only, not really, since it looks like most of us are going to hell anyway.
It is a inane plan, it is nonsense and it is not believable. Plus, why didn't god just put a fence around the tree of knowledge. If I was a parent with a pool, that is what I would do. Then, you walk out and say "Where is little Johnny" even though supposedly you are all seeing and then you see the little goober floating in the pool. You revive him and it looks like he'll be alright. So you beat the crap out of him because you love him so much and curse all his children, grandchildren, etc. Yeah, I call that bad parenting. No, I call that abusive parenting.
And you never speak to the child again except through other people and you tell him that you hate him and he deserves every bad thing that happens to him but that is really love and you are helping him build character. He doesn't think you are real because he has never actually seen you. He has only seen the nursemaid and a bunch of preachers who tell little Johnny that you are real and all-seeing and all-knowing. So, you decide when he dies you are going to roast him in hell for eternity. Yeah, that is a psycho parent, for sure.
Wednesday, March 30, 2011
KevMac
Okay, I suck at the computer so I don't know how to copy your comment here, so to make sure you see it. Thank you for your comment. I don't get very many as this is just my personal little blog where I put a few things I write and quotes that I find.
I guess I have my halo on today with my comment on DC:) Okay, just kidding.
I am glad that you didn't think I was too bad with my comment[s] on exC but I am guessing that some of the others were very harsh on exC. I don't remember your comments specifically but if you tell me the name of the story I could go back and read them. I do remember your name.
First, no one on exC tells anyone else what to do but there are occasions where someone will speak up if they think things have gone too far. Many of the commenters on exC have been very abused, terrorized and hurt by Christianity's tenants and teachings and/or religious families. The site is designed for people to say what they want to about their Christian experiences and to be empowered to speak up about their angry feelings as well as any other good or even bad feelings they have. They don't have to take the same kind of crap at the website that they have in real life. Quite a few still have family that treats them like dirt for giving up the religion or they are hiding that fact out of fear or, in quite few cases, love. They have no where else to feel they have a voice.
The vast majority of Christians who come to exC are not listening with their hearts, okay? They spew Bible verses. I own about 15 versions of the Bible. How many do you have? I don't have great memory so I have a hard time quoting word for word but darn it - I do know what is in the Bible. I know that and I quit being a Christian. Then, they spew how we exChristians just didn't believe in the right form of Christianity. Even though we have spent hours in the pew and most of us have tried a number of churches before we left Jesus behind. Quite a few of the Christians try to frighten us with hell or the terrible consequences of being a backslider. We thought about that before we left the fold. Hell is a myth from a long time ago that has been blown up into an over the top eternity of torture. So that we will all be too afraid to question the priests, preachers, ministers, popes and pastors. We saw that it was just a weapon of control with no substance. We resent having that used against us as it was while we were still believers.
What happens is that the Christian presents the same tired evidence we have all heard before, generally goes on and on, then leaves in a huff when no one is all that impressed with the info he has. The comment on DC is about atheists thinking they have kindness all wrapped up compared to Christians. Show me that is true.
My comments on exC are to protect the lurkers and the fellow commenters who are scared of Biblegod and worried that they will be punished by an invisible being for screwing up. They won't be. God hasn't punished me in all these years. Biblegod doesn't exist. My life is better for not having to reconcile the Bible teachings with the real world. I feel protective towards my fellow apostates.
Of course, I have my moments. I do sometimes resent that people will not take the time to listen or read what has been said on the site and think that their message is so important that they have to barge in and tell us where they think we went wrong. With thousands of variations of Christianity this ends up being a bit tedious. Sometimes I am tired or upset. The site is for me to vent a bit, too.
I would urge you to realize that those people are hurting. The Biblegod concepts are very damaging for many people. The message is absurdly negative [born a sinner, as filthy rags fit only for the dustbin], saved not by some sane method but by having some poor guy who is the son of god but really is god [WTF?] who then gets the crap beat out of him and is crucified in a gruesome death [he gave his all] but then he didn't really give his all if he is god and is still living after only 3 days of dead [is it really that big a sacrifice to do something for 3 days and still have an imagined eternity left beyond that?].
I am sorry if you have been offended by my fellow commenters at exC but I truly ask you to consider that exC is a refuge for hurting people.
As for commenters at DC, I wish they would realize that there is a lot more emotion involved with their logic than they might realize, I suppose:) Not that they are wrong because they are generally correct in their reason based thoughts. It is just that I don't picture a world filled with total rationality to be realistic nor a really good goal. I love having love in my life.
Enough of my ramblings for now.
By the way, the garden is just getting under way. The daffodils are looking happy and I really must start planting peas and spinach and lettuce very soon!
I guess I have my halo on today with my comment on DC:) Okay, just kidding.
I am glad that you didn't think I was too bad with my comment[s] on exC but I am guessing that some of the others were very harsh on exC. I don't remember your comments specifically but if you tell me the name of the story I could go back and read them. I do remember your name.
First, no one on exC tells anyone else what to do but there are occasions where someone will speak up if they think things have gone too far. Many of the commenters on exC have been very abused, terrorized and hurt by Christianity's tenants and teachings and/or religious families. The site is designed for people to say what they want to about their Christian experiences and to be empowered to speak up about their angry feelings as well as any other good or even bad feelings they have. They don't have to take the same kind of crap at the website that they have in real life. Quite a few still have family that treats them like dirt for giving up the religion or they are hiding that fact out of fear or, in quite few cases, love. They have no where else to feel they have a voice.
The vast majority of Christians who come to exC are not listening with their hearts, okay? They spew Bible verses. I own about 15 versions of the Bible. How many do you have? I don't have great memory so I have a hard time quoting word for word but darn it - I do know what is in the Bible. I know that and I quit being a Christian. Then, they spew how we exChristians just didn't believe in the right form of Christianity. Even though we have spent hours in the pew and most of us have tried a number of churches before we left Jesus behind. Quite a few of the Christians try to frighten us with hell or the terrible consequences of being a backslider. We thought about that before we left the fold. Hell is a myth from a long time ago that has been blown up into an over the top eternity of torture. So that we will all be too afraid to question the priests, preachers, ministers, popes and pastors. We saw that it was just a weapon of control with no substance. We resent having that used against us as it was while we were still believers.
What happens is that the Christian presents the same tired evidence we have all heard before, generally goes on and on, then leaves in a huff when no one is all that impressed with the info he has. The comment on DC is about atheists thinking they have kindness all wrapped up compared to Christians. Show me that is true.
My comments on exC are to protect the lurkers and the fellow commenters who are scared of Biblegod and worried that they will be punished by an invisible being for screwing up. They won't be. God hasn't punished me in all these years. Biblegod doesn't exist. My life is better for not having to reconcile the Bible teachings with the real world. I feel protective towards my fellow apostates.
Of course, I have my moments. I do sometimes resent that people will not take the time to listen or read what has been said on the site and think that their message is so important that they have to barge in and tell us where they think we went wrong. With thousands of variations of Christianity this ends up being a bit tedious. Sometimes I am tired or upset. The site is for me to vent a bit, too.
I would urge you to realize that those people are hurting. The Biblegod concepts are very damaging for many people. The message is absurdly negative [born a sinner, as filthy rags fit only for the dustbin], saved not by some sane method but by having some poor guy who is the son of god but really is god [WTF?] who then gets the crap beat out of him and is crucified in a gruesome death [he gave his all] but then he didn't really give his all if he is god and is still living after only 3 days of dead [is it really that big a sacrifice to do something for 3 days and still have an imagined eternity left beyond that?].
I am sorry if you have been offended by my fellow commenters at exC but I truly ask you to consider that exC is a refuge for hurting people.
As for commenters at DC, I wish they would realize that there is a lot more emotion involved with their logic than they might realize, I suppose:) Not that they are wrong because they are generally correct in their reason based thoughts. It is just that I don't picture a world filled with total rationality to be realistic nor a really good goal. I love having love in my life.
Enough of my ramblings for now.
By the way, the garden is just getting under way. The daffodils are looking happy and I really must start planting peas and spinach and lettuce very soon!
Kindness, Caring and Atheism
Hi Dan - I was thinking about this post [on Debunking Christianity Blog] and, although I have no idea if Richard will remain a Christian and so only time will tell if god did convince him to believe, I think you have stated what I was leaning towards: "There is a direct connection between belief and action, and this should serve as a strong reminder that our actions are what really define who we are."
So, if we say that atheists are every bit as loving and kind as theists then our actions had best show it. I truly believe there is a time and a place for a bit of vitriol against the Christian viewpoint and some of the deluded users of human kind that push their horrifyingly bad for the psyche Christian crapola. The people who believe they are apologists and preachers and are working hard to intellectually prove there is a god are a very deluded lot. They have read the info available and still lie to themselves and, importantly, innocent victims to prove their points.
Having said that, many people are raised to believe in Biblegod and god in general. What are they to do? They aren't always the brightest bulbs in the box or emotionally mature. They do know they want to feel accepted and loved. Who wouldn't? Do we throw punches or do we try to dialog with them or simply choose to ignore them at times?
To disagree with kindness and decency would indeed show where our hearts are. Now, I do not tell anyone here what to do. I am frustrated with all the Christian crapola myself and find the message that we were all born as sinners to be very damaging. We know there is a bait and switch going on when people enter the church and everyone loves them and then they get kicked to the curb later on and told they are sinners and the world is filled with bad things and only their version of Jesus can save them from the horrors they deserve. A sad and negative way to look at things and a waste of the one live we have, IMHO.
I cannot for the life of me fathom why people would think reason and reason alone is all the evidence one needs for every interaction. I want to feel. I need to feel. I am a human being, not a robot. Rationality is important as a reality check but then so are emotions. If a "scientist" thinks that he is harming people and he "feels" that is wrong, that may be a good thing.
We need both feelings and rational thinking to be fully human. Let's just consider that when we get the "big guns" out for a puny little threat like an ordinary human being that believes in Biblegod or god. Maybe remember to speak with the kindness and love that we so imagine a world without religion would have. Maybe it won't. That choice is up to us. Atheists have no corner on the market of kindness and need to cultivate that trait within themselves and the wider culture they live in.
Sometimes you can be right and still be wrong for saying something hurtful without considering people's feelings. One can choose ones words carefully when you think someone is delicate and save the big guns for those preachers and apologists that truly do deserve what they get. Religion will die a writhing, gasping death as there is no basis for it. In the meantime, what kind of a society are we helping to grow? A nurturing one or an "I'm right, you are an ass" type of society? A society of caring or one that wins at all costs? I truly believe we are at the crossroads and that we do not need a god to show we are kind and caring human beings. But, on the whole, atheists are going to have show, with their actions, that is true. Sometimes a gentle approach is best.
So, if we say that atheists are every bit as loving and kind as theists then our actions had best show it. I truly believe there is a time and a place for a bit of vitriol against the Christian viewpoint and some of the deluded users of human kind that push their horrifyingly bad for the psyche Christian crapola. The people who believe they are apologists and preachers and are working hard to intellectually prove there is a god are a very deluded lot. They have read the info available and still lie to themselves and, importantly, innocent victims to prove their points.
Having said that, many people are raised to believe in Biblegod and god in general. What are they to do? They aren't always the brightest bulbs in the box or emotionally mature. They do know they want to feel accepted and loved. Who wouldn't? Do we throw punches or do we try to dialog with them or simply choose to ignore them at times?
To disagree with kindness and decency would indeed show where our hearts are. Now, I do not tell anyone here what to do. I am frustrated with all the Christian crapola myself and find the message that we were all born as sinners to be very damaging. We know there is a bait and switch going on when people enter the church and everyone loves them and then they get kicked to the curb later on and told they are sinners and the world is filled with bad things and only their version of Jesus can save them from the horrors they deserve. A sad and negative way to look at things and a waste of the one live we have, IMHO.
I cannot for the life of me fathom why people would think reason and reason alone is all the evidence one needs for every interaction. I want to feel. I need to feel. I am a human being, not a robot. Rationality is important as a reality check but then so are emotions. If a "scientist" thinks that he is harming people and he "feels" that is wrong, that may be a good thing.
We need both feelings and rational thinking to be fully human. Let's just consider that when we get the "big guns" out for a puny little threat like an ordinary human being that believes in Biblegod or god. Maybe remember to speak with the kindness and love that we so imagine a world without religion would have. Maybe it won't. That choice is up to us. Atheists have no corner on the market of kindness and need to cultivate that trait within themselves and the wider culture they live in.
Sometimes you can be right and still be wrong for saying something hurtful without considering people's feelings. One can choose ones words carefully when you think someone is delicate and save the big guns for those preachers and apologists that truly do deserve what they get. Religion will die a writhing, gasping death as there is no basis for it. In the meantime, what kind of a society are we helping to grow? A nurturing one or an "I'm right, you are an ass" type of society? A society of caring or one that wins at all costs? I truly believe we are at the crossroads and that we do not need a god to show we are kind and caring human beings. But, on the whole, atheists are going to have show, with their actions, that is true. Sometimes a gentle approach is best.
Monday, March 28, 2011
Notable Quotable
"If we are going to teach 'Creation Science' . . . as an alternative to evolution, then we should also teach the 'Stork Theory' as an alternative to biological reproduction." ~Judith Hayes~
"Science . . . has opened our eyes to the vastness of the universe and given us light, truth and freedom from fear - where once was darkness, ignorance and superstition." ~Luther Burbank~
I found these two quotes and, of course, I think we could add Carl Sagan saying " Reason is a candle in the darkness." Hope I correctly quoted Carl. I know I am close:)
I in no way "worship science" which is a red herring thrown about by fundamentalists and a few others in Christianity. I do believe that science has shown us the vastness of the Universe. The possibilities of endless numbers of planets around this Universe. Thus, the likelihood that there are far more sentient beings in the Universe is growing exponentially. Now, they all live so far away and they are so spread out in the vastness of time we will probably never meet them. Yet, these other sentient beings either have in the past, are now or will be in the future "out there".
I also believe that science does not have all the answers. It doesn't have all the questions. Why are we here? Why is this society better than that society? Is our society being all that it can be? So many questions that science can only give us clues for. The answers lie in our hearts and minds. It is we, as a thinking species, that will have to sort these kind of questions out. Science can help.
Relying on an outside source like the Bible, the Koran, gods and demons is immature. Science has been helping us to grow up by allowing us to see these "parent figures" for what they are. Substitutes for taking responsibility where we need to and accepting the way life is when that is necessary. In essence, our species is being allowed to "grow up". Our reasoning mind must be kicked into high gear and allowed to assess our emotional mind so that we can decide what is a reasonable emotion and what actions we can or should take [children are lovable therefore we should take care of them] and what is an unreasonable emotion and/or action [I should beat my wife because I am angry.]
"Science . . . has opened our eyes to the vastness of the universe and given us light, truth and freedom from fear - where once was darkness, ignorance and superstition." ~Luther Burbank~
I found these two quotes and, of course, I think we could add Carl Sagan saying " Reason is a candle in the darkness." Hope I correctly quoted Carl. I know I am close:)
I in no way "worship science" which is a red herring thrown about by fundamentalists and a few others in Christianity. I do believe that science has shown us the vastness of the Universe. The possibilities of endless numbers of planets around this Universe. Thus, the likelihood that there are far more sentient beings in the Universe is growing exponentially. Now, they all live so far away and they are so spread out in the vastness of time we will probably never meet them. Yet, these other sentient beings either have in the past, are now or will be in the future "out there".
I also believe that science does not have all the answers. It doesn't have all the questions. Why are we here? Why is this society better than that society? Is our society being all that it can be? So many questions that science can only give us clues for. The answers lie in our hearts and minds. It is we, as a thinking species, that will have to sort these kind of questions out. Science can help.
Relying on an outside source like the Bible, the Koran, gods and demons is immature. Science has been helping us to grow up by allowing us to see these "parent figures" for what they are. Substitutes for taking responsibility where we need to and accepting the way life is when that is necessary. In essence, our species is being allowed to "grow up". Our reasoning mind must be kicked into high gear and allowed to assess our emotional mind so that we can decide what is a reasonable emotion and what actions we can or should take [children are lovable therefore we should take care of them] and what is an unreasonable emotion and/or action [I should beat my wife because I am angry.]
Sunday, March 27, 2011
Religion Hurts
We see it all the time. Religion hurts at least as much as it helps. I think it hurts the world and human beings far more than it helps them. I am reminded of this when I see comments from Christians that tell us that we are all born sinners. Sin is a man made disease. And priests, ministers, pastors and preachers have the cure. Come to church. Read the Bible. Give of your time, talents and money. It would seem, however, that accepting Jesus as your savior is no real cure as you have to keep on going to church, reading the Bible and giving of your time, talents and money for the rest of your life!
Original sin is such a sad and horrible concept. You aren't just born human with your good points and your bad points. You are born as filthy rags fit only for the dustbin. Such an overwhelmingly negative way to view yourself. The only cure, accepting Jesus, isn't much of a cure. You are still garbage. Its just that when you finally die Jesus has you covered.
This life is the only life we know for a fact that we get. Allowing ourselves the freedom to explore different beliefs is a gift we need to give to ourselves. A lot of us are coming to realize that the Bible is just another set of myths and Biblegod isn't any more real than anyone else's god. In fact, a lot of us are realizing that there probably just isn't any god at all. And for many of us that is a relief from the guilt of being born sinners and the fear of an imagined hell after death.
Original sin is such a sad and horrible concept. You aren't just born human with your good points and your bad points. You are born as filthy rags fit only for the dustbin. Such an overwhelmingly negative way to view yourself. The only cure, accepting Jesus, isn't much of a cure. You are still garbage. Its just that when you finally die Jesus has you covered.
This life is the only life we know for a fact that we get. Allowing ourselves the freedom to explore different beliefs is a gift we need to give to ourselves. A lot of us are coming to realize that the Bible is just another set of myths and Biblegod isn't any more real than anyone else's god. In fact, a lot of us are realizing that there probably just isn't any god at all. And for many of us that is a relief from the guilt of being born sinners and the fear of an imagined hell after death.
Thursday, March 24, 2011
Is Christianity a Cult?
This comment by dealdoctor should answer that question.
You are just like the merciless bastards you hate so much!"
Dan, don't take this personally. It is not you we hate because how could we we do not really know you. It is your ideas which have been deeply examined long ago by most of us and found empty, false but very seductive to the vulnerable. Observe the fact that religions, of which Christianity is just one, separate, indoctrinate and control. You know how you would feel about "false cults"? That is the way we feel about all cults. Christianity is just a BIG cult but it is a cult with all the characteristics of any other cult. At random I found this list of the characteristics of a cult by Nori J. Muster who may or may not be a Christian. I do not honestly know. I just too the list to see how Christians measure up as a cult.
Commentary by Nori J. Muster
If you think you might be involved in a cult, ask yourself some serious questions about the group.
Do you have to change who you are to fit in, please others?
( Discipleship and "Christian Growth to be more pleasing to the Lord and church group opinions)
Do they set up a duality of "us" and "them" and tell you that people outside the group are bad, less important?
( The Saved versus the Unsaved)
Do they treat "outsiders" badly or talk behind their backs?
( Oh " the world system" is going to hell in a hand basket!")
Do they treat members badly?
( Shunning, Speaking the Truth in "love" )
Do they give a false impression to the public?
( We are all about charity but our church budget has 98% spent on our own group activities and building needs)
Do they predict that society is on the brink of destruction?
( Oh hell yes! Jesus is coming SOON!)
Further symptoms:
Cult leaders are often psychopathic and power hungry. They teach their followers that the outside world is evil; that the cult offers the only salvation. This creates an atmosphere of isolation, leading to hopelessness.
( Be sure you come on Sunday morning, night and Wednesday night and then we have our small groups and the retreat. Put your kids in our Christian school. AND you have to meet our PASTOR!! HE IS INCREDIBLE!)
Cult recruiters target people with low self-esteem, presenting the group as a loving surrogate family. Members are taught to do whatever the family asks. They must repress their individuality and work for the good of the group.
( The Spirit of the Lord is upon me to preach the gospel to the POOR, recovery of sight to the BLIND, release the CAPTIVES and you get the idea go to the underclass vulnerable crowd. And the bad market would be those rich people who are leaders in society. Why it is very hard to dupe those dudes).
New people may receive red carpet treatment, but once they are established members, they may be exploited and abused. They may alter their personalities to please authority figures and fit into the group.
( Saved by Grace alone but soon it's your butt better show up and work your ass off or you are backslidden and on your way to hell again. In sales we call it bait and switch. )
Cult leaders preach that society is on the brink of destruction, reinforced by isolating their members and controlling the flow of information within the cult. They manipulate members with guilt and fear.
( Christians manipulated by the use of guilt and fear. Well maybe that is not true like other cults. Wait! That does actually happen when people are called to come to the altar and confess their sins to the Lord and come under CONVICTION of their sins or they will bust hell wide open. Guilt and Fear in cults. Yep its right there in every Evangelical congregation that preaches the Bible. Repent!!!!!)
Cults try to portray themselves as benign and may hide undesirable aspects of their operation from the public and from members. Thus the stereotype of "blind" followers.
( Those who follow a Shepherd just like sheep do? Well maybe if it is a Good Shepherd . Hey man you have got to come hear our PASTOR!!!!!! )
Check, check, check, check...right down the line. Cult...How ironic that Evangelical churches want to deprogram people from cults....It is about like a cocaine addict helping an alcoholic get off booze.
Cults are everywhere. By the way Hitler's followers also qualify. You got to hear our LEADER!!
You are just like the merciless bastards you hate so much!"
Dan, don't take this personally. It is not you we hate because how could we we do not really know you. It is your ideas which have been deeply examined long ago by most of us and found empty, false but very seductive to the vulnerable. Observe the fact that religions, of which Christianity is just one, separate, indoctrinate and control. You know how you would feel about "false cults"? That is the way we feel about all cults. Christianity is just a BIG cult but it is a cult with all the characteristics of any other cult. At random I found this list of the characteristics of a cult by Nori J. Muster who may or may not be a Christian. I do not honestly know. I just too the list to see how Christians measure up as a cult.
Commentary by Nori J. Muster
If you think you might be involved in a cult, ask yourself some serious questions about the group.
Do you have to change who you are to fit in, please others?
( Discipleship and "Christian Growth to be more pleasing to the Lord and church group opinions)
Do they set up a duality of "us" and "them" and tell you that people outside the group are bad, less important?
( The Saved versus the Unsaved)
Do they treat "outsiders" badly or talk behind their backs?
( Oh " the world system" is going to hell in a hand basket!")
Do they treat members badly?
( Shunning, Speaking the Truth in "love" )
Do they give a false impression to the public?
( We are all about charity but our church budget has 98% spent on our own group activities and building needs)
Do they predict that society is on the brink of destruction?
( Oh hell yes! Jesus is coming SOON!)
Further symptoms:
Cult leaders are often psychopathic and power hungry. They teach their followers that the outside world is evil; that the cult offers the only salvation. This creates an atmosphere of isolation, leading to hopelessness.
( Be sure you come on Sunday morning, night and Wednesday night and then we have our small groups and the retreat. Put your kids in our Christian school. AND you have to meet our PASTOR!! HE IS INCREDIBLE!)
Cult recruiters target people with low self-esteem, presenting the group as a loving surrogate family. Members are taught to do whatever the family asks. They must repress their individuality and work for the good of the group.
( The Spirit of the Lord is upon me to preach the gospel to the POOR, recovery of sight to the BLIND, release the CAPTIVES and you get the idea go to the underclass vulnerable crowd. And the bad market would be those rich people who are leaders in society. Why it is very hard to dupe those dudes).
New people may receive red carpet treatment, but once they are established members, they may be exploited and abused. They may alter their personalities to please authority figures and fit into the group.
( Saved by Grace alone but soon it's your butt better show up and work your ass off or you are backslidden and on your way to hell again. In sales we call it bait and switch. )
Cult leaders preach that society is on the brink of destruction, reinforced by isolating their members and controlling the flow of information within the cult. They manipulate members with guilt and fear.
( Christians manipulated by the use of guilt and fear. Well maybe that is not true like other cults. Wait! That does actually happen when people are called to come to the altar and confess their sins to the Lord and come under CONVICTION of their sins or they will bust hell wide open. Guilt and Fear in cults. Yep its right there in every Evangelical congregation that preaches the Bible. Repent!!!!!)
Cults try to portray themselves as benign and may hide undesirable aspects of their operation from the public and from members. Thus the stereotype of "blind" followers.
( Those who follow a Shepherd just like sheep do? Well maybe if it is a Good Shepherd . Hey man you have got to come hear our PASTOR!!!!!! )
Check, check, check, check...right down the line. Cult...How ironic that Evangelical churches want to deprogram people from cults....It is about like a cocaine addict helping an alcoholic get off booze.
Cults are everywhere. By the way Hitler's followers also qualify. You got to hear our LEADER!!
Thursday, March 10, 2011
A Dark Parable
A Dark Parable
http://new.exchristian.net/2011/03/dark-parable.html
By DRC ~
I’ve spent my whole life trying to find God - seeking Him, crying out to Him, and begging Him to reply. Countless times I’ve asked God whether He exists, but He never answers. I’ve also spent my whole life looking for evidence of His existence. In hindsight, this was a little foolish. Romans 1:19-20 says that God’s “eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen” in nature. It says God’s existence is plainly obvious to everyone. It shouldn’t take two decades of searching to find Him. Merely a seconds thought should be enough to see God’s nature.
If God created the universe, I want to learn about Him. If God loves me unconditionally, I want to love Him too. Unfortunately I can’t even tell that He exists. According to the Bible, this is because God has intentionally deluded me [John 12:40, Isaiah 6:10, 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12]. He has twisted my mind so that I cannot see His “plainly obvious” truth. He has forced me to believe He doesn’t exist and will now condemn me to hell for it. I spent my life crying out to Him as the Bible instructs, and this is what I get.
Atheists have a three-word-solution to this problem, and it is very tempting indeed. Yesterday I was thinking about all these things and a dark parable appeared in my mind…
There was once a small boy who was starting his first day of school. His father drove him there in the morning and before opening the car door, the boy said, “Dad, do you love me?” His father didn’t respond. The boy was puzzled and didn’t know what this meant.
Years later the boy, now a teenager, was starting his first job. As he was leaving for his first shift he asked his father, “Dad, do you love me?” The father did not respond. He didn’t even blink. This worried the boy but he decided not to let it get to him. He was growing up. He had a new job. He had a life to live.
Years later the boy, now an adult, was moving out of home. He had packed his belongings and spent a few minutes looking at his childhood toys one last time before they would be donated to charity. He had learned and changed. He was moving on. As he turned to walk out the front door, he asked his father one more time, “Dad, do you love me?” There was silence, but then the father stood up. He walked over to the fireplace and the grown boy watched intently as he lit a fire. Without saying a word, the father took the boy by the throat, pushed his head into the flames and held it there for eternity.
This amazing parable was published on exChristian.net by one of the many contributors to their website. The content was amazing. Think about. God spends a lifetime not actually speaking to us. Others tell us what God is and says and does. The Bible, the preachers, our friends and our family. God never says a word to us directly. And then He sends most of His creation to Hell when they die. What a ridiculous and immoral God!
With so many gods available to worship in this world, or agnosticism or atheism available as alternatives, why would you worship this god? Let this god go and choose a life path that makes sense and encourages kindness and decency!
By DRC ~
I’ve spent my whole life trying to find God - seeking Him, crying out to Him, and begging Him to reply. Countless times I’ve asked God whether He exists, but He never answers. I’ve also spent my whole life looking for evidence of His existence. In hindsight, this was a little foolish. Romans 1:19-20 says that God’s “eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen” in nature. It says God’s existence is plainly obvious to everyone. It shouldn’t take two decades of searching to find Him. Merely a seconds thought should be enough to see God’s nature.
If God created the universe, I want to learn about Him. If God loves me unconditionally, I want to love Him too. Unfortunately I can’t even tell that He exists. According to the Bible, this is because God has intentionally deluded me [John 12:40, Isaiah 6:10, 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12]. He has twisted my mind so that I cannot see His “plainly obvious” truth. He has forced me to believe He doesn’t exist and will now condemn me to hell for it. I spent my life crying out to Him as the Bible instructs, and this is what I get.
Atheists have a three-word-solution to this problem, and it is very tempting indeed. Yesterday I was thinking about all these things and a dark parable appeared in my mind…
There was once a small boy who was starting his first day of school. His father drove him there in the morning and before opening the car door, the boy said, “Dad, do you love me?” His father didn’t respond. The boy was puzzled and didn’t know what this meant.
Years later the boy, now a teenager, was starting his first job. As he was leaving for his first shift he asked his father, “Dad, do you love me?” The father did not respond. He didn’t even blink. This worried the boy but he decided not to let it get to him. He was growing up. He had a new job. He had a life to live.
Years later the boy, now an adult, was moving out of home. He had packed his belongings and spent a few minutes looking at his childhood toys one last time before they would be donated to charity. He had learned and changed. He was moving on. As he turned to walk out the front door, he asked his father one more time, “Dad, do you love me?” There was silence, but then the father stood up. He walked over to the fireplace and the grown boy watched intently as he lit a fire. Without saying a word, the father took the boy by the throat, pushed his head into the flames and held it there for eternity.
This amazing parable was published on exChristian.net by one of the many contributors to their website. The content was amazing. Think about. God spends a lifetime not actually speaking to us. Others tell us what God is and says and does. The Bible, the preachers, our friends and our family. God never says a word to us directly. And then He sends most of His creation to Hell when they die. What a ridiculous and immoral God!
With so many gods available to worship in this world, or agnosticism or atheism available as alternatives, why would you worship this god? Let this god go and choose a life path that makes sense and encourages kindness and decency!
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